Pickles516
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2021
As a SPED teacher, this was one hell of a read.
3) I think you need to consider if you truly, truly, truly feel that 3 schools, who have independently seen your son's actions/behaviour/marks etc, are wrong in assessing his needs.
That’s a false analogy, and pretty much everything in this particular post is Cherry-picked to try to discredit special education as an institution when, in reality, it serves to illustrate not only how right these schools seem to be about your son, but also the genetic and environmental factors that account for his neurological makeup.This post is not necessarily directed at the person I'm quoting. But I'm quoting this because you will hear this argument a lot, and it's a false argument. This post is for any parent who has a "different" child. I know the pressure you are under if you have a "different" child and I want to provide a new perspective for you to consider. I was going to respond originally with this point but I didn't and even though it's like 4 months later I decided I'm going to.
Suppose there was a society that invented the toothbrush. Yet instead of using it to brush their teeth they used it to clean the toilet. It's small and maneuverable and the bristles would work well cleaning something. Now, suppose I took you to this society and you didn't know about their toothbrush use. I told you I was taking you to three psychology "experts" and they were going to assess your sanity. The first psychology expert took you to a bathroom and gave you a toothbrush and asked you to demonstrate how to use it. So you start brushing your teeth. What would the first expert think of you? Now suppose the second and a third did the same test. Would you say those three "experts" are wrong when they assess you as crazy for using a toothbrush to brush your teeth? Or do you admit these "experts" are wrong?
THIS is the problem with the argument "that 3 schools who have independently seen your son...". It's not "3 schools" it's one train of thought. All of the public school personnel went to college for the same things, hung out with the same crowd, took the same classes, and have the same work partners. OF COURSE they all think the same thing about my son. The school psychologist who abused my son majored in dance in college. DANCE! And she thinks she can assess mathematically gifted kids? No, she can only asses whether a kid likes to have a conversation.
My niece was going to be a "neuroscientist". That was her life's dream. She went to college, couldn't hack biology and changed her major to psychology and now she's going to graduate school and will probably end up working as a school psychologist. Yet SHE is going to assess young kids (primarily boys, look up the stats) who are scientifically/mathematically gifted? She can't relate to them. of course she'll think there's something wrong with them.
I was born in 1976. In 1993 I had friends in high school who built computers. They took a bunch of hardware, put it together, wrote the OS, and built the freaking thing. They were "weird". Do you know anyone who built a computer at 16 years old? Do you think anybody at my son's school knows someone like them? Of course not. We tend to hang around people like us. So people who work at an elementary school hung around non-technical people. They don't understand technical people.
My son is exactly like me. I am highly analytical and I "get" math the way Michael Jordan "gets" basketball. This morning at breakfast I asked if we were going to take down his birthday (Feb 9) signs on February 1st (I meant to say March 1st). He said "dad, February first is 344 days away. I think we're going to take them down on March 1st". Now, a "normal" person would have pointed out that my February 1st comment was wrong and I meant March 1st. But my son doesn't think like that. Instead he calculated how long until the upcoming February 1st and told me it was 344 days away. How many 10 year olds do that? My son taught himself multiplication at 8 years old. How many 8 year olds do that?
If you give my son a date within the next 3 years he will tell you the day of the week. So if you say "John what day of the week is August 3 2023" he'll tell you it's Thursday in about 20 seconds. I can do this. But until my son started doing this a couple months ago I'd never met anyone else who can. My previous boss thought I was a carnival sideshow and would start all of our team meetings asking me the day of a week for a certain date in the future. She thought it was amazing I could figure it out in my head. My son can do this too at 10 years old. How? It's all math. I do the same thing. It's knowing that the day of the week changes by one each year, then knowing that each month has 28 days which is 4 weeks so those cancel and then you add up the remaining days and get the answer. So here's how you figure out August 3, 2023. March 3 2022 is 9 days away which is a Thursday (the 7 days cancel so you have 2 days + today is Tuesday = Thursday). Then you know March has 3 extra days, April 2, May 3, June 2, July 3 so that is 13 extra days. 14 days cancel so you subtract one day from Thursday and you get Wednesday for August 3 2022. Then you are asked for 2023 so you add a day (365 is 52 weeks + 1 day) and you know that August 3, 2023 is a Thursday. But no one taught me how to do this. I just know how. No one taught my son either, but he just knows.
Mark Zuckerberg had to testify in front of Congress years ago. Facebook hired someone to teach Zuck how to be "normal". Things like how to dress, that he needed to look people in the eye when speaking to them, to wait for the other speaker to finish before he began to answer (look this up if you don't believe me). If Zuckerberg were born in 2010 he would have been placed in an autism special education classroom because he doesn't maintain eye contact while speaking (the school told me that means you're autistic)
Yet this comment at the top of this post is the "normal" way of thinking: "I think you need to consider if you truly, truly, truly feel that 3 schools, who have independently seen your son..."
Yes, I truly feel that even a million people who majored in English, who are afraid of math, who have never built a computer, or even taken one apart to see what it looks like inside, lack the ability to assess my son. I truly feel that people who quit math at Intermediate Algebra and can't tell you anything about basic stuff like what an integral measures and what it's used for lack the mental skill set to assess my son. I TRULY believe that.
To finish up, This post is for people who have a "different" child. You need to entertain the possibility that the people who are assessing your child just don't understand him (or her, but it's 90% boys, again look it up). You need to realize your child has gifts that others can't see or refuse to see or dismiss out of hand.
Ding ding ding.Nice story. You're probably autistic. So is your son. It doesn't matter how you try and frame it. It's insulting to the education and expertise of the people whose job it is to assess whether your son is having difficulties in school due to his neurodiversity. They know what they are doing. Your kid is not the first "different" one they have encountered.
Your sons math abilities are not that unusual, nor are yours. It's called splinter skills. My almost 18 year old son is also a human calculator. He was writing up algebraic expressions at age 3 and solving for x (I'm serious). He built his own computer at 14. I have a video of him reciting Pi out to over 500 digits at age 9.
My father read AND MEMORIZED the entire Encyclopedia Brittanica set at the age of 13 because he spent a summer being grounded for being "different." This man also had to repeat Kindergarten because he didn't play appropriately with the other kids." That was in 1952. Imagine that. Even back then there were different kinds of kids who didn't fit the mold.
My younger son had PROFOUND difficulties in school at age 10, but he could remember the day ANYTHING happened in the past, and would respond immediately when asked a seemingly minor question like "what day did you get that lego set?" He'd come back with a day of the week, calendar date and year. He still does this at age 16. Most recently I mentioned some cookies I bought from a new cookie shop and he said "you bought those on December 1." Who remembers those kinds of details nearly 3 months later? A friend of mine whose son is autistic (severely so) and intellectually impaired can ALSO do this calendar trick. It's a common ability of autistic brains.
Yeah, my kids and my dad are "different." I embrace that about them. But they still need help getting through a school system that is not designed for people like them. That's the reality. As a parent, my job has been to get them the support they need for the classes/subjects they struggle with while allowing them to show what they do well.
My high school senior is absolutely rocking Calculus and Spanish (he has a knack for languages and accents---he taught himself how to count to 100 in about 15 different ones at age 5 by watching You Tube videos, but I digress). His reading comprehension for fiction is garbage, though. He struggles to write using original thoughts. He cannot take high school level Language arts or History due to the heavy emphasis on reading/writing. We have tried and it has been a spectacular failure. He won't graduate with a diploma because our state doesn't allow curriculum modifications at the high school level for core subjects. He recently failed his drivers license knowledge test twice because of the way the questions are worded to try and trick people, despite knowing the content of the handbook 100%. He hasnt had a job yet because he can't answer basic questions during an interview with more than an "I don't know" answer. These are the ways his "differences" have been problems that have held him back in real life. In my opinion, he's a freaking genius. To the rest of the world, he's a nice, polite kid who is super weird but also has some crazy talents in certain areas, and he is an amazing baker. I still have no idea what his future holds. But I'm certainly glad he was diagnosed early and given every opportunity to meet his own potential with the appropriate supports in place for the last 15 years in school. He will continue in the district special education program after high school. It's an adult transition program that teaches job and life skills. Our goal is for him to find a satisfying job so he can one day live independently (which is what he wants).
I don't tell others how to do their jobs, but I have learned a LOT as a parent of autistic kids. I was going to be a doctor and I ALSO dropped my pre med major in college because I couldn't hack the math classes involved. I switched gears and majored in English because I enjoyed it. I've been a stay at home parent most of my adult life. I still read a LOT. I educate myself on ALL kinds of subjects. I am innately intelligent. I would be SO insulted if some person who never met me assumed that I couldn't POSSIBLY understand "some subject" because I didn't ORIGINALLY go to school for that particular thing. Or that because I am a certain way myself, I cannot undertstand people who are different than me. That's the kind of black and white thinking that is common among autistic people...and it's very damaging.
This whole post was, “My son can’t be autistic, and to prove it, I will go into great detail about how I’m autistic as well”.
Your son is blessed to have you. Parental perception has such a huge role in how students/people who are neurologically “atypical” develop and thrive in school. Way to go mama bear.Spot on. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Once my son was diagnosed and I began reading about autism, I immediately recognized my father. I told him I thought he may be autistic. He thought about it for a minute and said "I think you might be right. But that just means your son will turn out okay. I did."
Your son is blessed to have you. Parental perception has such a huge role in how students/people who are neurologically “atypical” develop and thrive in school. Way to go mama bear.
A lot of people don’t seem to get that schools want their kids to be successful (generally speaking). They also don’t seem to get that just because they kick and scream until someone yes’s them to death and gives them whatever it is that they want for their child, doesn’t mean that they were right from the start.Thank you.
I have found much success by working WITH the schools as a team. No animosity. Mutual respect. Our kids have gotten everything they've needed and then some. I recognize not all kids are so fortunate, but we made deliberate decisions to live above our means for many years so we could access this particular school district's outstanding special education program. We have never encountered abuse of any kind, subpar teachers or any kind of bullying. We cant afford to buy a home here and probably never will. But we are planted here for the next 6 years, minimum, until our youngest ages out of the special education program at 22. Your kids only get one chance at childhood/K-12.
Thank you.
I have found much success by working WITH the schools as a team. No animosity. Mutual respect. Our kids have gotten everything they've needed and then some. I recognize not all kids are so fortunate, but we made deliberate decisions to live above our means for many years so we could access this particular school district's outstanding special education program. We have never encountered abuse of any kind, subpar teachers or any kind of bullying. We cant afford to buy a home here and probably never will. But we are planted here for the next 6 years, minimum, until our youngest ages out of the special education program at 22. Your kids only get one chance at childhood/K-12.
I don't know if you would be interested in this, but one of my local colleges has a college program for kids with intellectual and developmental disabilities called "Cutting Edge" : https://www.edgewood.edu/cutting-edge . I've heard very good things about this program.Thank you.
I have found much success by working WITH the schools as a team. No animosity. Mutual respect. Our kids have gotten everything they've needed and then some. I recognize not all kids are so fortunate, but we made deliberate decisions to live above our means for many years so we could access this particular school district's outstanding special education program. We have never encountered abuse of any kind, subpar teachers or any kind of bullying. We cant afford to buy a home here and probably never will. But we are planted here for the next 6 years, minimum, until our youngest ages out of the special education program at 22. Your kids only get one chance at childhood/K-12.
With a added dollop of contempt for women who choose non-technical fields.This whole post was, “My son can’t be autistic, and to prove it, I will go into great detail about how I’m autistic as well”.
Def, the school is not always looking out for the kids. 100%. Some just don't want to be bothered with the extra work so they say there is no problem, others create problems when none exist bc they want the extra $. However, if several schools are telling you the same thing, there is probably an issue of some sort that needs to be addressed. Regardless, what OPs school did was wrong, regarding CPS and the lies they told to mess with this family. So I can see why there would be a lack of trust there.Story Time #2:
Moral to this story: Sometimes the parent is right and the school is NOT looking out for what's best for the kid.
A good friend had her ODS (older dear son) in a local Catholic school, but after a few years of a hellacious experience, pulled the ODS out and decided to home school him. The teachers called the ODS stupid to his face, he was mocked, teased, called lazy, you name it. My friend asked them to test ODS for learning disabilities...they refused, said that ODS was just lazy and a good-for-nothing. The way the ODS's teacher spoke to him was down right unprofessional. Truly terrible.
So she pulled ODS out of the private school and decided to give home schooling a go. It's worked out really well for them. She spent their own $$, like you, to get ODS tested by reputable professionals who were experts in child psychology & evaluating children for ADHD, autistm, learning disabilities, you name it.
And guess what? OP - like your son, Friend's ODS did NOT have autism. Did not have ADHD either. Did not have oppositional defiant disorder or anything like that either. Child psychologist said that Friend's ODS has a pretty high IQ, but also has a couple of learning disorders...one of which is dysgraphia.
Friend took that info to their local school district & inquired about what sort of special services ODS would qualify for. They said ODS would be put in a special ed class. Friend said, "Nope, no thanks." She's home schooled him ever since. ODS is now almost 16. Friend has done a phenomenal job...done her own research and found curriculum & techniques for helping her son with his learning disabilities.
Then year before last (so kid was 13 1/2), she kind of had exhausted all of her resources that she found herself and did some poking around. As it turns out, state law where she lives requires the local public school district to provide learning disability services & assistance to home schooled students. It took almost 9 months of bugging the school district, but they finally agreed. And yes, she, too, presented them with their family's child psychologist's evaluations...the school district basically said, "We don't believe you, we want to evaluate him ourselves." Their family's child psychologist communicated directly with the school district's psychologist...aftewards, Friend's child psychologist told her that ODS's dysgraphia is so bad, that you'd have to be an idiot to miss it, but the school's psychologist attitude was "Meh, I don't see a problem here."
Finally, the school district backed down and Friend got ODS the additional learning disability help that he needed. When he writes essays on a computer using Word, he's fine because Word uses predictive text to give suggestions on what the misspelled word really is meant to be. By comparison, when ODS writes essays out by hand, it's like reading the misspellings and hand writing of a 4-5 year old. But when ODS reads his own hand writing out loud, you'd never be able to guess that he has a problem if you didn't see his written word at all.
Friend's ODS is going to go to college. His diagnoses has allowed him to get special accommodations for standardized tests like the PSAT. Like your son, Friend's ODS is quiet, doesn't talk a lot...he's reserved.
ALL of the Catholic school and public school people told Friend that she was in denial. She got a lot of the same push back that you & your family have gotten. You know your kid. Hang in there, Dad.
It’s also weird, because the woman he’s holding up as the proof of his child not being autistic has an MS in speech pathology, which is an equivalent degree *at best* in terms of educational rigor when compared to an MS or MA in special education. Super strange stuff going on.With a added dollop of contempt for women who choose non-technical fields.
It’s also weird, because the woman he’s holding up as the proof of his child not being autistic has an MS in speech pathology, which is an equivalent degree *at best* in terms of educational rigor when compared to an MS or MA in special education. Super strange stuff going on.